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Engine Flywheel:


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By Post from the Past - Monday, February 18, 2008 3:19 AM
Engine Flywheel:

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Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/14/07 at 09:54 PM
#1

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I'm looking for a flywheel for a 1693TA Caterpillar engine. Currently the engine has a "power unit" flywheel installed and is not condusive to on road usage.
Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Rob

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GeoffWeeks

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 982 11/14/07 at 11:52 PM
#2

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seams like just the excuse you need for a nice LaBlond gap bed lathe....A few turnings on the floor and a nice flat flywheel
Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/15/07 at 07:15 AM
#3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffWeeks
seams like just the excuse you need for a nice LaBlond gap bed lathe....A few turnings on the floor and a nice flat flywheel


Wish that were an option Geoff. When the transfer case exploded behind this engine, the input shaft was forced forward, and pushed the pilot bearing through the bore land destroying the flywheel.
I did locate a good used one today for $400.00 plus freight, with a 15.5 inch clutch surface. Kinda expensive, but rare as you know.

Thanks,

Rob

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GeoffWeeks

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 982 11/15/07 at 11:09 PM
#4

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If just the pilot bearing land is bad, I would think you could cut a snap ring groove to position the bearing, of course if it broke out a good section of the flywheel as it went, that would not work.
Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/15/07 at 11:58 PM
#5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffWeeks
If just the pilot bearing land is bad, I would think you could cut a snap ring groove to position the bearing, of course if it broke out a good section of the flywheel as it went, that would not work.
Hi Geoff, my first inclination was to bore and sleeve the flywheel center. Upon removing the flywheel from the engine, the pilot bearing bore, (about 2.875 inches in diameter was enlarged to almost 4.5 inches from the pilot bearing land back. I could probably still bore and sleeve, but would rather not have problems in the future so have elected to replace instead. I do have another flywheel that could most likely be used, but it has heat cracking through the friction surface area and I have deemed it unsatisfactory for usage.

I know that a fool and their money soon part ways but; It's always better to err on the side of caution.

Thanks,

Rob

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JeffLipinski

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 256 11/16/07 at 12:09 AM
#6

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If it was worn out that far then it would have almost been out to the bolts, right?
GeoffWeeks

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 982 11/16/07 at 01:10 AM
#7

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Still think you need the La Blonde..... Just so I can come, use it.... LOL
Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/16/07 at 05:24 AM
#8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLipinski
If it was worn out that far then it would have almost been out to the bolts, right?
Yes Jeff, the hollow end of the crankshaft stub was the limit of the parting line. Has about 3/4 inch to the bolt circle.

Rob

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Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/16/07 at 05:45 AM
#9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffWeeks
Still think you need the La Blonde..... Just so I can come, use it.... LOL

I had a 16X30 Le Blonde lathe, WWII surplus. Was a really nice machine but 700 rpm was not fast enough for what I was doing at the time. Tooling was quite expensive as it had a #6MT in the headstock spindle, and a #5MT in the tailstock. I sold it and purchased a Springfield lathe, (16X54) that had coolant, taper, rapids, and a few other "goodies". With that lathe, I could hold .0008 tolerance repeatedly at the chuck. Both chucks were "Buck", and very accurate. Also had a faceplate and several dogs of different sizes but I never did need that type of setup(s). I especially liked the "CXA" series Aloris tool post as it had over 23 different holders that was included. Making and repairing parts with that machine was almost as fast as a turrent lathe will do. If you were slow, five seconds would be all it took to change a tool. I was kinda fond of the L1 spindle nose and 3-5/8th hole through the spindle also. Also included a full array of 5C collets and closer, but I never used them.

Never had a gap bed lathe. Looks like a good idea if rigidity is maintained but the theory seems like a compromise to me.

Rob

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Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/25/07 at 08:25 PM
#10

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Back to the top for memory refreshment.

Rob

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62kw



Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 165 11/26/07 at 12:54 AM
#11

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Rob if you could get me a part # of the flywheel you need. I have a friend that works at a salvage yard, they just tossed a 1693 core but he said they kept some of the bolt ons? He said he would be more than happy to look thru their Cat flywheels if he had a casting #, Scott

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Scott Waggoner
Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/26/07 at 02:16 AM
#12

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Thank you Scott. If I cannot get the part and/or casting number from the serial, and arrangement numbers, I will pull the trans from my Mack, (1693TA also and needs clutch anyway) and get you the numbers directly.

Thanks again!

Rob

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Jim_Herriot

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 49 11/26/07 at 02:40 AM
#13

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
If I cannot get the part and/or casting number from the serial, and arrangement numbers, I will pull the trans from my Mack, (1693TA also and needs clutch anyway) and get you the numbers directly.
......For 65B1- UP.........Jim.





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Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/26/07 at 06:04 AM
#14

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Herriot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
If I cannot get the part and/or casting number from the serial, and arrangement numbers, I will pull the trans from my Mack, (1693TA also and needs clutch anyway) and get you the numbers directly.
......For 65B1- UP.........Jim.






Hi Jim, thanks for the post. Do you know if there is any difference in flywheels on an engine with "Brakesaver", and without?

Thanks,

Rob

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Jim_Herriot

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 49 11/27/07 at 02:28 AM
#15

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Hi Jim, thanks for the post. Do you know if there is any difference in flywheels on an engine with "Brakesaver", and without?
Thanks,
Rob

.......Rob, I can't see where the book calls for any thing different........as far as a flywheel is concerned.......looks like a different fly wheel housing??????none of my engines have retarders.........Crankshaft different for non after-cooled engine.....all 3 TA's use same crank.......Jim.
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Engine Flywheel:

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theakerstwo



Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 379 11/27/07 at 02:38 AM
#16

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I have worked brake salvers and i think the flywheel is the same and it just has a exstinson on the rear of the crank to set it back futher and it does have two crank seals in there.

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glenn akers
Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/27/07 at 03:08 AM
#17

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Thank you for the guidance. The only engine I have with "Brakesaver" is in the Mack chassis and the flywheel housing is indeed different. It sets the transmission back a full four inches further to the rear than a non "Brakesaver" equipt engine. I've not had it apart so have not seen it internally. I'll be lifting the cab from the chassis early next week and I'll attach pictures after everything is cleaned up a little. Very dirty as of now due to oil leaks.

Rob

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theakerstwo



Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 379 11/27/07 at 04:16 AM
#18

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When a cat flywheel is replaced always check and see if timing hole is drilled in same place because they can have more than one hole and i have ran in to this problem before and saw one that did not have a timing hole in the flywheel and one that was close.

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glenn akers
Rob

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 205 11/27/07 at 06:02 AM
#19

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theakerstwo
When a cat flywheel is replaced always check and see if timing hole is drilled in same place because they can have more than one hole and i have ran in to this problem before and saw one that did not have a timing hole in the flywheel and one that was close.

Glenn, are you refering to the hole that the timing bolt aligns into, or the marks for aligning to the crankshaft flange? Both of my junk flywheels have holes drilled in the same area and both have scribe, or punch marks for alignment to the crankshaft flange.

Rob

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theakerstwo



Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 379 11/27/07 at 06:22 AM
#20

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Where the timing bolt aligns into the flywheel from the housing is not always in the right place so just check it it dont take but a second to do and i thinf i remember 3 and was all i think dealing with a rear pto drive flywheel housing anyway i remember the insident and may have been on cenment mixers and one was a auto trans.

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glenn akers
tundra

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 631 11/27/07 at 07:26 AM
#21

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the different flywheel housing is mearly a ;;sandwiched ;; section between
the rear engine block and the trans
...when ya pull the trans [and ya need ta go farther ta reseal the retarder]
.....after pullein the trans
...there are 3 countersunk allen head bolts that retain the flywheel housing
extension .......which also houses the retarder converter...
...i would strongly recomend pullin that section and reseal
[or have it resealed]......while the trans is out ....and your that close to it

theres more like 3 rear crank seals[2 inthe retarder housing..1 at the rear of the block]

....jim k tomer ....the altar boy


By Rogerstar1 - Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:26 PM
Reading this interesting thread I am struck by the rarity and the apparent  desireability of a Cat brakesaver for a 1693.   I seem to have no difficulty finding parts or indeed entire 1693s for little more than scrap value.  I recently was offered a big Cat (1693) with a brake saver.  All operating.  Does anyone have a sense of its value and whether hauling it from Seattle to the Mississippi River Valley makes sense?  With  manuals heading north of $100 apiece  on ebay I realize I've been away too long.  In 1992 I bought one of Patton's Trucking, Inc. 1971 extended hood Petes with its original 1693.  Pattons ran alot of trucks in he Northwest and all had a  fancy letter  "P" painted on the shutters.   They operated out of Sumner, Washington and Mr. Patton threw in a framed big picture of my tractor rolling out the factory door - a  Peterbilt sales promotion to loyal customers of that era. Mr. Patton bought six longhood Peterbilts in one transaction to haul for Safeway out of Southern California to Western Canada.  He told me those rigs ran  20,000 miles a month with codriivers splitting 12 cents a mile.  You gents have me thinking to try and save my motor  since I've found the arrangement number and seeem to be on a roll.  The expertise and wisdom folks are willing to share at this web site is also encouraging to me.

Roger in DC   
By John_Costley - Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:46 PM
Roger,

The 1693 Cat is kinda like the 392 Hemi.A hell of an engine in its day that folks still tell stories about.Theres some still on the road, though not many being driven everyday.Parts are out there, though some are getting pretty rare.Value....all depends on how bad someone wants it.Not many still trucking, so the value of a retarder is pretty low.John 
By Post from the Past - Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:59 AM
Since this thread was dug up and the subject matter morphed into an almost new topic I will add to John C's comment

as with the early Chrysler hemi the 1693 was  love hate relationship you either loved them and thought nothing in the world was better suited for your truck or you hated them.

 If you owned the truck and had a hired driver on it you never slip seated one to do so meant that every scheduled maintenance service you spent double of what you would on a truck with an assigned knowledgeable driver.

as for the design of the engine it was about 30 years ahead of its time in some respects and 20 years behind in others.

 The monstrous Switzer turbo could build obscene boost pressures if the waste gate malfunctioned

 the oil pump could circulate over 120 gallons per minute @ pressures of over 100 PSI so much that with the brakesaver applied it had a pressure restrictor to keep from washing the bearings out on the crank.

  The oil cooler was so huge and wedged between the frame and block that it was nearly impossible to work on without raising the engine from its mountings. use the wrong colored "O" ring on any of the oil lines and you had 18 gallons of oil on the ground  as soon as you started the engine and before you could shut it off.

   Accidently place the tattle-tail heat discs in the wrong position when changing or reworking the head and you guaranteed yourself a warranty job within 5000 miles. Reuse the flywheel bolts without placing them in an oven @ 300 Degrees for 4 hours than allowing them to return to ambient temp over a period of an hour and you could have 600 lbs of rotating parts come off the back of the engine. (That was a little cat trick I got  from an old CAT mechanic not sure if it was the recommended procedure or not)

   Look at a Detroit series 60 real close and see some of the charterers of the 1693  
By Rogerstar1 - Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:39 PM
"
Frank Surber (5/12/2010)
Since this thread was dug up and the subject matter morphed into an almost new topic I will add to John C's comment 

   Accidently place the tattle-tail heat discs in the wrong position when changing or reworking the head and you guaranteed yourself a warranty job within 5000 miles." 


Frank - the little tattle- tale heat discs you refer to...my mechanic mentioned something about items resemblng o-rings or ferules  on the head ...quite a number of them and they all appeared to be heat damaged and in need of replacement.  The heat discs...where do they fit on the head and what is there function?  I  appreciate your insight and your patience.    R. Durban
By Rob - Wednesday, May 12, 2010 2:48 PM
They are calibrated to melt or deform at a specified temperture. A lot of cylinder heads are fitted with them, (glued on) after a rebuild or refurbishment. They are a tell tale sign of overheating and a good way to void any type of warranty.

Rob
By glenn akers - Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:28 PM
Most rebuilder will change them but maybe not all of them. It is there for waranty reasons. The cummins is a plug that will melt the back side.Never did know of DD usingf them. But the later engines will have trhe events stored in the ECM for ever.
By Post from the Past - Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:19 PM
The little disc I was referring to in the old 93s were made of disimilar metals in the earlier years , with a small spring inside of them they looked like micro mini thermostats, designed to come apart it the engine overheated. it seams to me if I recall correctly that there were something like 24 of these, it has been a long tiime since I had the head off of a 1693.

  I remember the "Oring" type as well but don't remember those being used in the 93s, the little by-matalic disc could actually be placed in the wrong locations if you wern't careful which would block water passages between the spacer plate and the head

 but you need to remember it has been 20 years since I had the head off of any cat engine. so I can be miss remembering things.
By junkmandan - Friday, May 14, 2010 4:23 AM
Detroit had heat sensing plugs on the exhaust side of the head ,visable only when the exhaust manifold was removed .[At least on the 2 strokes].
By glenn akers - Friday, May 14, 2010 5:11 AM
Yes i remember the DD plugs now but can not remember what Frank is talking about. I guess that is what happens when you get old and been used too much.
By OrrinS - Friday, August 06, 2010 9:16 AM
I bought a '76 KW in'07 because iy had a 36" sleeper and was twin screw...AND mostly because it had a 1693 T/A.  Loved the way it pulled in the low RMP range and the sound of it!  Only drove it 3,200 mile and that sure did prove the fact it was a fuel-hog vs the turned big cam 1 in my s/a '76 KW.

If I'm correct the heads cracked easily when over heated and that was mainly due to it being a pre-cup block.  Wonder what it wold have been like if converted to direct injection!  Lot cooler and I'd think good or at least better mileage figures that the 3.5 to 4.8 mpg I got on my trip out west.

Anyone know if this was ever tried.  The fellow who does my cummins work say he thinks there are enough parts around to do the job.  We just never had the $$$ for the experiment  ...LOL
By glenn akers - Friday, August 06, 2010 3:29 PM
I never heard of cat trying to change to di on that engine.  The reason the heads cracked was same reason the two cycle DD did. And more engine than that  the metal and casting procedures then was not what it is in later engine and the cooling system was inproven as time went by. The 1693 was changed to a better engine which was same bore and stroke but lighter.They also to had cracking problems but the precup engine i think did run hotter at the head.Even to this day cat has more heads to crack than any other engine does.The E model and later C15 would crack between the valve seats and it was mostly surface cracks but when looking at acrack it is hard to tell how deep it is. The funny thing is when you get a reman head the crack has been ground or milled down deep into the head between the valve seats and you dont see the crack because the metal has been removed.Any way that is what i think.