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NTC-475 with MVT?


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By WhiteTDdriver - Friday, June 04, 2010 5:15 PM
Hi All, I just bought a wrecked '85 Pete with an NTC-475 twin turbo for my 67 White project. There is a second key switch marked "high horsepower" beside a toggle marked top to bottom "M  MVT  A". Can anyone shed some light on this switch combo and how it affects the power output? 
By chocko - Saturday, June 05, 2010 1:15 AM
WhiteTDdriver No idea on your question. Are you putting that twin turbo in a 9000 White. It will be a tight fit for sure. Good Luck Joe D.
By Flynpenguin - Saturday, June 05, 2010 5:42 AM
I bought a 475 off the floor for a glider kit in 1981 or 82 and there wasn't any provision for dash controls. As I recall, the MVT was controlled by a fuel pressure switch operating a solenoid valve. There was no middle setting, it was either full retard or full advance. The solenoid valve metered the air thru an orifice to slow down the transition, and when it was working properly, the transition was not noticeable.
But keep an eye on the aftercooler. Mine broke the the both lower half of the cooler case and the cooler core 3 or 4 times. Probably because the heads were working from all of the cylinder pressure.
By WhiteTDdriver - Saturday, June 05, 2010 5:23 PM
Yea, the 475TT is going in the 9 but it's a lot longer story than just an engine swap. This engine came up all of a sudden and I pounced(someone said you can't fix stupid, so I guess I'll have to live with the affliction). The TD9500 was a result of seeing my uncles and their friends driving them for Hennis and Fredrickson in the 60's and 70's, I was hooked. After 5 years of planning, drawing, and scratching my head while building what other customers want I will end up with the floor of the cab about 12 inches off the ground when the air bags are dumped and only 4 inches higher at ride height. With the 475TT, a double over 13, and a 3.23 rear axle ratio, "Fast Freddie" on the door should be moving on down the road.

I spent the day tracing wires and the switches do run to a solenoid but I kept getting confused by all the other circuits and gauge feeds. I have started to compile a wiring diagram and gauge diagram so all the connections make sense. The Pete has what the previous owner call a Corvette Dash so nothing appears to be stock behind the dash panel but it does appear to be professional, although confusing. There wasn't a lot of info in my Motor manuals on this engine but an old timer says there is a diesel injection shop in Pa. that is well versed in these engines, Now for the leg work to find them and learn...

At least I saved the remains of the Pete from a premature crushing and the engine will rule the road again.

Since I am developing a stash of spare parts and a problem with the air to water aftercooler may rear its ugly head, does an air to air aftercooler and a conventional intake sound possible?
By Geoff Weeks - Saturday, June 05, 2010 5:40 PM
An Air to air should be no problem, as long as its big enough to handle the air flow. That is a high flow cooling engine so no problem elimiateing the water cooler.

  My guess on the switches (and just a guess) is the 2nd key locked off the max fuel (with a 2nd pressure regluator... Diesel injection of Pittsburg used to make a "smoke kit" that would hold down the power so you could pass a snap idle test) and the M-A was a manaul/automatic switch for the MVT. In Manual it would be held in the retard postion and in Auto the pressure sw (in the fuel rail) would control the timeing. Really more for show, as if set-up correctly you don't want manual settings as they can be left in the wrong position and damage things. Although Scott had some problem with a Jake and the MVT, but I thought that was on a K series.
By Kid - Saturday, June 05, 2010 6:45 PM
WhiteTD... this might help a bit.. the numbers arent the clearest..

R-click it, SaveAs.....
By hanks1961kw - Monday, June 07, 2010 5:18 AM
That is something else I went to my friends yard this Sunday he picked up a 1970 Peterbilt 359 with a ntc 475 no MVT .Weird thing on his is the water pump has one on the side. Seems you have a ntcc 475 hopefully Scott W. schimes in he has one in his 1962 KW service truck. I found a video on youtube of a heavy hauler Freightliner tri axle rears 2sp, 13sp main 4sp auxiliary says he is putting out 800 HP twin turbo intercooled. He says he controls the MVT from inside the cab.Suppose to be a hot rod working engine did something to the cam and shaved the heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvB8xkRoH7E

By Scott Waggoner - Monday, June 07, 2010 1:52 PM
The switch is probably-I say probably, a over-ride for the fuel pressure sensor. They were trouble prone and alot of them were by-passed or had a cab over-ride to control the timing changing.  The fuel pressure sensor is just a "switch", at a set pressure-which I dont remember, 90psi? it would switch and the electric over hydraulic valve would change the timing.

If its not connected to a fuel pressure regulator like Geoff said I bet it replaces/over-rides the fuel pressure sensor. Last one I bought was $120. I manually controlled mine in the KTTA because I didn't like the timing to rapidly change when shifting gears. Never worried about it in my no-load service truck.
By Dan Bruno - Monday, June 07, 2010 2:23 PM
I've heard a lot about the 475s, seen a couple in action and have spent countless hours in and around a 444 with variable timing.  The one thing I never paid attention to was how the timing changed.  What did the electric over hydraulic actuator change, i.e. what was the physical mechanism and how did it change timing?
By glenn akers - Monday, June 07, 2010 3:07 PM
The 475 changed the postion of the cam follorers on the cam to advance or retard. but the 444 was done with stc control thru the injector.A later way of retarding the fuel timing before the ecm controls.
By WhiteTDdriver - Monday, June 07, 2010 5:10 PM
I'm really glad to see the photo above 'cause several unbelievers are saying that Cummins would have Never produced such shadetree looking manifold pieces that must be nothing more than raw 1/4 plate cut to fit with a hacksaw. As the previous owner said, it may look crude but its factory. I never douted that the pieces were factory but have to agree Cummins could have done a better job.

Thanks for the wiring diagram, comparing what I've drawn so far does agree with it. This will save a lot on time and trouble. Today I dropped the pen(should have been using a pencil) I was drawing with and still cant find it, do Petes eat things? 

I stopped by the local radiator shop and the diesel shop that have worked on my daily driver L10 and niether have ever seen a 475 TT . thats 25 to 30 years of experience per shop. Are these engines really that rare?
By Scott Waggoner - Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:50 AM
There were plenty made but obviously not as many a a standard Big Cam. Actually a picture of one on the first few pages of a Cummins service manual. There were quite a few around here for a few years and alot in BC and Alaska. Read a article about them in tanks also. They were a "you wanted one" type of engine for the time. Smaller,lighter and less expensive than KT's or 3408's. The big turbo (high pressure) is the same as KT 600 and the low pressure is all by itself. Rest of engine is basically BC Cummins. I like mine mainly for the novelty rather than the practicality, patterned my life that way also-why not?

Hank, those chrome goodies would sure look good on mine!
By kblackav8or - Tuesday, June 08, 2010 1:26 PM
That isn't a typical Big Cam III oil cooler/filter mount.  Looks more like one from a BC I or II. 
By WhiteTDdriver - Tuesday, June 08, 2010 5:31 PM
I agree 110% as to the cool factor Scott. Especially since, in this application, the engine will be fully expsosed between the rails, cab, and radiator shell. I didn't get back to the engine removal today but the frame saw the light of day in all of its surface rust glory and the bottom welding was finished. With all the trouble I've gone through to maintain the patina of the cab, grill, axles, etc. I almost hate to paint the frame, it'll be too shiny. The engine will be cleaned but thats about all, after checking some of the hoses and belts only those that pose a threat of failure will be replaced.

I came across a few air to air aftercoolers today. One is pretty small from a 99-03 Ford Super Duty, the second is from an early 90's L10 and also has the radiator,  condensor with it, and a third comes from a T600 KW engine unknown. The L10 and T600 are pretty close to the same size with the inlet/outlet location(both are 4" dia) being the main difference. Anyone have sugestions as to a choice of aftercooler with the limiting factor being the width of the White grill shell. I'm not against relieving the sides for inlet,outlet clearance but I dont want to lose the shell completely. I've given in to a custom radiator due to the thickness that will be required to cool the monster(getting rid of the water/air aftercooler will help) but it would be neat to keep the functional louvers that are original to the shell.
By tundra - Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:13 PM
the MVT cummins hadda air actuated piston that alterd the eccentrice shaft on the injector lobe of the cam folleowere.....

.......it was controlled by a solenoid on the fuel pressure sidea the pump....

.....

....one couldnot acucatly set cam timin ......cause all 3 a the cam followers set on all at once

...[ie.....no addin or subjtactin individual cam gaskets ]

...although most common ly used on the twin turbo 475;s.........the MVT was also used on many outhers also....

.....a common problem was that the air cyl [the one that activated the eccentric on the camfollowres ] froze /rusted up /corroded / whatever

.....

we had figgured the ;;;fix;; before cummins had....

....although towards the end of use cummins had figgured out how ta putta very small meterd amount a oilta the actuator

....

...on our twin turbo 475;s .......we used ta first off ....run the oil system[and return]...

....dash lights ta indicate if the MVT was in advance or retard mode by means offa sensor drilled inta the bottomathe actuator base [so we knew fer sure if it was in which mode....not what it was tellin ya ].......

....

....we also ran larger ;;;resiouve;;; tanks jest for the MVT [made cold startin a little less smokey]

.....we also ran ;;;override;; switches also
By chocko - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 1:10 AM
  • Whitetddriver Did you ever consider putting a second radiator with electric fan mounted on frame behind cab? You could have one made that looks like AAPU box.A friend of mine did it with a IH 2000D he put a 335 in truck and needed extra cooling. I do not think the stock radiator will be enough to cool even in hobby truck.Good luck Joe D.
By glenn akers - Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:52 PM
tundra (6/9/2010)
the MVT cummins hadda air actuated piston that alterd the eccentrice shaft on the injector lobe of the cam folleowere.....

.......it was controlled by a solenoid on the fuel pressure sidea the pump....

.....

....one couldnot acucatly set cam timin ......cause all 3 a the cam followers set on all at once

...[ie.....no addin or subjtactin individual cam gaskets ]

...although most common ly used on the twin turbo 475;s.........the MVT was also used on many outhers also....

.....a common problem was that the air cyl [the one that activated the eccentric on the camfollowres ] froze /rusted up /corroded / whatever

.....

we had figgured the ;;;fix;; before cummins had....

....although towards the end of use cummins had figgured out how ta putta very small meterd amount a oilta the actuator

....

...on our twin turbo 475;s .......we used ta first off ....run the oil system[and return]...

....dash lights ta indicate if the MVT was in advance or retard mode by means offa sensor drilled inta the bottomathe actuator base [so we knew fer sure if it was in which mode....not what it was tellin ya ].......

....

....we also ran larger ;;;resiouve;;; tanks jest for the MVT [made cold startin a little less smokey]

.....we also ran ;;;override;; switches also
            Jim i think the last engine were oil actuated air controled.Dont go around telling ever one i said that cause i have worked very little on the system. I have converted a few back to NTC engines for the purpose of fuel mileage. There was some around here and all was good power but too much problems. The oil control actuater was less trouble from what little i know about them.
By WhiteTDdriver - Monday, June 14, 2010 2:50 PM
took another look at the engine tag and ran the serial number by Cummins, also by Peterbuilt using truck vin, both agree... NTC-475.

found out the trans is a RTO-15615. new post for trans Question

Thanks All
By glenn akers - Monday, June 14, 2010 3:27 PM
I guess you know that the engine flywheel housing will have to be redrilled for the trans to set on a angle and it will have to be taped to a 7/16 thread. The old 9000 used a 3/8 bolt to bolt the trans to the flywheel housing. I just dont see it going into the 9000 for lack of clearance for the ehaust and aftercooler.Another thing was the 9000 needs a off center very much fan mount used by no one that i have seen but old taper nose crank cummins.I want to see alot of photos.
By wilba - Friday, September 03, 2010 2:51 PM
Hey Guys, I was looking on the net for 855 info and found this forum.Getting back to the original question I think you will find that the switch will be a remedy to fix some of the origanal probs with the mvt.Pittsberg power have info on it if you like.Basically for higher lift cams it allows the operator to stop bad starting and white smoke on start up and exessive smoke on getting off line.Once you get going you shift to high power for hard pulling.Either that or a duel power setting.

might help..          Billy...